Great Gun Stuff Blog

Most of you, I think, know what is meant by a term "STANAG magazine". For those of you who do not, it refers to a specification prepared by NATO which describes the dimensions of an AR-15 / M16 compatible magazine. An example of the usage of the term is in the Magpul's Masada spec document (emphasis added) ...

Multiple ammunition magazine capability is accomplished with unique lower receivers to accept either the NATO STANAG (USGI M-16) or the Automatic Kalashnikov (AK) magazine. Additional lowers receivers that accept other maga- zine types are also possible.

I received an interesting email from Roberto, a NATO employee, who explained that despite the term being commonly used, the specification does not exist. Apparently the draft STANAG 4179 was never ratified by member states and therefor it was discarded by default. If you call up the NATO Standardisation Agency (Bruxelles) and ask them for the STANAG 4179 document they will tell you that it does not exist.

This slide comes from a NATO presentation ...

So there you have it - STANAG 4179 does not exist! "USGI compatible" is a more correct term than "STANAG compatible" when referring to AR-15 magazines.

Many thanks to Roberto for this information.

EmptorMaven has reviewed the NATO conversion kit for the Steyr AUG SA. The kit allows the use of STANAG (AR-15) magazines.

Steyr has always offered the NATO version as an option to military customers, but no country, as far as I know, has chosen to adopt it over the standard AUG.

The semi-automatic FN SCAR 17S, which chambers 7.62x51mm NATO, was supposed to be on sale this year, but FN-USA have announced that it won't go on sale until 2010 ...

Released for 2010 is the highly anticipated SCAR 17S now available for civilian purchase. Chambered in 7.62x51mm NATO (308 Win.) and slightly heavier than the SCAR 16S, this unique carbine offers long-range accuracy, exceptional reliability and match winning versatility.

Both SCARs have fully ambidextrous operating controls, a free floating, cold hammer-forged Mil-SPEC barrel with hard-chromed bore; a receiver-integrated MIL-STD 1913 optical rail plus three accessory rails for mounting scopes, electronic sights, lights, or lasers. The side-folding polymer stock is fully adjustable for comb height and has six settings for length of pull. The SCAR also features a tactically advantageous reciprocating charging handle for quick ammo and magazine failure response.

SCAR 17S (top) and its smaller brother the 16S.

The British troops are also calling for a switch to something better than the 5.56x45mm NATO. The Telegraph reports ...

A survey of more than 50 servicemen who have fought in Iraq and Afghanistan concluded that the 5.56mm calibre rounds used by British soldiers 'tailed off' after 300 metres yet half of all Helmand firefights are fought between 300 and 900 metres.

...

The study, co-written by Nicholas Drummond, a strategy consultant and ex-Welsh Guards officer, described British soldiers' rifles as "not much more useful than a peashooter".

...

The Ministry of Defence told the newspaper the 5.56mm calibre rounds used by United States and other Nato allies are "proven to be both accurate and powerful."

Typical government response.

Many thanks to RootMan for the link.

I had heard no news about the Army search for a "subcompact"¹ for quite a long time and thought that the idea had been dropped. Apparently this is not so. The Military Times reports:

Despite initial industry suspicion that the Army would let the effort die a slow death, the service is moving forward with the development of a compact weapon that shoots like a rifle but slings like a sub gun.

According to the Army official in charge of fielding new weapons for the service, the search for a so-called "subcompact individual weapon system" is moving ahead in earnest. In May, the Army sponsored a user evaluation where Soldiers put subcompact weapons through their paces to see if the idea would stick.

...

"To some people [the issues] are fundamental, to other people they're on the margins - it depends on who you talk to," he added, declining to be more specific.

The service is also waiting for the final version of the fiscal 2010 Pentagon budget to be signed by the president, releasing nearly $10 million to start the program.

...

Army officials have said that if all the benchmarks are met, Joes could potentially see a new rifle or redesigned M-4 by 2012.

The more important question is if they are willing to adopt a new cartridge. I don't think anyone would argue that the 5.56mm NATO performs well out of a sub-carbine (11" or shorter) barrel.

11" Barreled Colt M4 Commando. Another example is the HK416 sub-carbine.

My 2c: develop a 9mm +P+ round that is compatible with the M9 pistol (lets call it the 9mm Steve), then develop a short barrel, foldable stocked, sub-carbine which chambered the 9mm Steve. Deploy it. [ Army officials : contact me for the address to which you can send my hefty consultant's fee ]

Discuss in the comments ...

Truvelo, a South African company is best known internationally for manufacturing traffic lights, also makes firearms - notably the infamous NEOSTEAD Bullpup shotgun and the Raptor rifle.

Truvelo Raptor Rifle

I was very pleased to see that the Raptor has been given a makeover. The older stock made it look like a cheap toy rather than a real rifle.

The old style stock ... they need to update their website.

Truvelo claim the gun provides excellent controllability during full auto fire due to the recoil and bolt system. It also features is the ability to easily switch between 5.56mm NATO and 7.62x39mm.

A big thank you to Lusaka for the information and photo he provided.

Back in July, when the specification for the original Remington ACR specifications where announced, I said one of the cartridges it would chamber was the 6.5mm Grendel. Remington said "6.5mm", and in the context I assumed it was the Grendel.

Not long after posting it, I was emailed by a well placed industry insider who told me that he very much doubted Remington would ever produce a gun chambering the Grendel. His reason? The management behind the development of the cartridge left a lot of bad blood in their wake. He suspected that the listing of "6.5mm" was a marketing ploy.

His prediction that Remington would not offer it has come to fruition. Adam Heggenstaller reported (emphasis mine) ...

Ongoing development will focus on the 6.8 mm Rem. SPC, 7.62x39 mm, a yet-to-be-disclosed 6.5 mm round and, get this, the .30 Rem. AR.

Will we ever see this cartridge? I don't know. At least we know why Remington are not just saying "Grendel".

UPDATE: My original source just emailed me to suggest that the .30 Remington AR necked down would make a lot of sense! He has a good point. (This is just speculation - not inside knowledge).

7.62x51mm NATO, 6.5mm Grendel and 5.56x45mm NATO

RobArm has started shipping XCR pistols to dealers. I have discussed the pistol previously on the blog. It is essentially a semi-auto XCR PDW without the butt stock. This allows civilians to own it without having to pay BATFE tax.

A very mean looking pistol. Note the nifty sling attachment that replaces the butt stock.

Many thanks to Armando for the info and photos.

Stag Arms's newest AR-15 is the piston operated Model 8 carbine.

Model 8 Piston Carbine

Stag have not released much information about the rifle. It looks much the same as their M4-style Model 3 carbine. I am not sure if the piston system is their own design (if you can identify, please do in the comments). It looks like it could be a long-stroke design, but I am not sure. UPDATE: See below.

Piston system can be seen when upper handguard is removed.

Lefties will be pleased to see that a left-handed model will be available.

UPDATE: David from Stag told me that it is a short-stroke piston that Stag Arms designed.

Need AR-15 Ammo? SmokeWagonGear is currently having a sale that is meant for you! Below are some examples of their AR-15 Ammo Sale:

- Federal XM193 223 Rem - 500 Round Case
• 55 Grain
• Lake City Brass - Boat Tail
• Case of 25 Boxes of 20 Rounds
• 500 Round Case

WAS $220.00
Value priced for only $190.00

- Federal XM193AF 223 Rem on 10 Rd. Strippers 900 Rd Case

FEDERAL .223 REM AMMUNITION
CASE OF 900 ROUNDS
30 BOXES OF 30 ROUNDS

• .223 Rem (XM193)
• 55 Grain
• Full Metal Jacket
• Boat Tail
• On 10 Round Stripper Clips
• (3) Stripper Clips - 30 Round Box
• 30 Boxes of 30 Rounds - 900 Round CASE

WAS $449.99
Value priced for only $369.99

- Federal Lake City M855 5.56MM - Green Tip Steel Penetrator - 100 Rd. Bag

FEDERAL LAKE CITY M855
5.56MM (.223) AMMUNITION
100 ROUND BAG

• Lake City M855 - 5.56mm (.223)
• NATO Contract Ammo
• 62 Grain
• Full Metal Jacket
• Green Tip Steel Penetrator
• Lake City Brass - RELOADABLE
• 100 Round Bag

WAS $100.00
Value priced for only $70.99

- Federal Lake City M855 5.56MM - Green Tip Steel Penetrator - 1,000 Rd. Case

FEDERAL LAKE CITY M855
5.56MM (.223) AMMUNITION
1,000 ROUND CASE

• Lake City M855 - 5.56mm (.223)
• NATO Contract Ammo
• 62 Grain
• Full Metal Jacket
• Green Tip Steel Penetrator
• Lake City Brass - RELOADABLE
• 1,000 Round Case (1,000 Rounds Loose in Box)

WAS $700.00
Value priced for only $650.00

For more info on their AR-15 Ammo, visit SmokeWagonGear!

- Greg